Djur: Alec argues that Obama is an acceptable compromise because he’s at least somewhat human.
Djur: I’m not entirely in accord with that yet, but he’s working on me.
EtJabberwock: Well I, for one, am just impressed as shit at the fact that Obama is articulate.
Djur: No kidding. And he’s clean.
EtJabberwock: Oh, my, yes. No lice at all.
EtJabberwock: And he doesn’t fling his feces at ANYone.
EtJabberwock: Nor does he scream “MOTHERFUCKER I WANT SOME ICED TEA” at restaurants.
Enter the Jabberwock
Welp.
I seeee. And how many drinks had you had before that conversation?
C’mon Crane, give us all a break, this is just two decent guys talking politics!
Now, I’m gonna give you all the Old World/European perspective: It doesn’t matter one way or another who wins in 2008, for America’s gonna be fucked no matter what. The only (possible) difference is that the Democrats might fuck you less badly than the Republicans. Remember all those environmental decrees that Clinton signed before he left office? Why the fuck didn’t he put all that stuff on his agenda when he had the chance to make it all permanent?
It looked all so good on paper (and in the media, of course) but the next administration scrapped most of it immediately. Over here in dear old fucking Germany we have the same scam going on: ostensibly we have a contest between left and right, but at the end of the day they’re all the same kind of arseholes (regardless of party affiliation)! I consider meself a deeply moral kind of guy and that’s why I don’t vote anymore! See, If they’re all arseholes, why bother to vote. Whosoever rules this country next will fuck it up even more, but at least I’ll keep me hands clean by not voting for any of those fuckheads…
Good luck and love to all and sundry,
Rev Kestrel
You all in Germany should try to support a movement as far out of the reach of that compromised center and badly designed government as possible, a movement from the streets, who can really change things
Not voting is not the moral thing to do. It’s not a statement of protest, it’s a statement of apathy. Find a candidate who supports the ideas you’re in favour of and vote for them, even if they stand no chance of winning. Explain to people why you’re doing it. Encourage them to do the same.
If, as you say, all the candidates really are terrible, the moral thing to do is to find a new one.
You can either let your country suffer or you can attempt to change things. The moral choice seems obvious.
I’m all for Obama on the basis of three things:
a) He’s a human being. Having a revolving-door government of right-wing bastards has basically produced a depraved and inhumane civil society, and we’re becoming increasingly violent, sadistic, and hateful as a society. (I don’t think, before Reagan, Bush, Clinton, and Bush II, too many of us would have cheered at a kid getting tased by the police for asking a question.) Unless we have human government again – and soon – I don’t know how much hope there is for us. Having an actual human being, with a soul and everything, as President would go a long way towards healing the wounds the right has been deliberately picking at since Goldwater went down in paranoid flames.
b) He’s the most left-wing candidate in the running. While Kucinich is farther left, he’s not a realistic candidate – too much of the American left wing is unwilling to participate in Democratic politics, instead choosing to sit on their thumbs until Tweedle-Dum is the only vaguely acceptable choice. I wish he were, but at present, Obama is the left wing’s man in the party – the first we’ve had in far too long.
He was a labor activist, worked against Wal-Mart before it was cool, was born and raised in _Hawaii_, of all places (not exactly a hotbed of reaction, it isn’t), and shows all evidence of being basically concilatory towards the right in rhetoric and unswervingly center-left in practice. (Oppose Clinton, who is more or less the opposite – talks a big game about villages and children, then fucks both.)
c) The left is holding Obama’s balls. He’s gotten more small-dollar donations than anyone else in the running put together, and is outcompeting the other candidates more or less on the basis of that alone. His support base is the silent majority sick of being bullied by the bigots and horrified by what Bush and his capitalist toadies have done to us. He owes us at least something.
I know none of this is a ringing endorsement, but I think that two terms of Obama would go a long way towards shifting this country towards the left politically. Otherwise, we’re just going to decay into brutal fascism as a society. You’re already seeing that; Bill O’Reilly, the fucking conservative mainstream, is decrying habeas corpus as a far-left belief and basically begging big, manly Daddy Bush to protect his tender, dainty ass from the scary darkies – on a daily basis.
We’re getting anti-Semitic, racist, and violent – in ways that would be actively repugnant to someone from another era. I think the electorate from 1976 being transposed into the present would probably wind up rising up in rebellion.
In a perfect polity, Obama would be who I’d be voting against. He’d be the rightward boundary of the politically acceptable – moderate, unwilling to take major changes, but with a solid understanding that the world does need to be changed and injustices do need to be wronged. He’s the only candidate in the running who isn’t trying to forcibly remove human decency from the political table. I think that counts for a lot.
No, see, Obama isn’t African-American, like, descendent of slaves. That’s why he’s smart. I have a whole explanation worked out. It’s amazing how much intelligence one can put into justifying racism.
Yeah, I like Obama for all those reasons, Alec. Plus, he’s cute, and I’ve heard Gravel say odd things about Jewish conspiracy.
Hooray, I’m in Britain! We don’t have ANY potential leaders who aren’t douchebags! Hooray!
Frankly, I think the only possible solution now is a guy-fawkes style attack on the houses of parliament, followed by the reinstatement of the monarchy.
Ladies and Gentlemen, the Queen! *raises glass*
>>>Frankly, I think the only possible solution now is a guy-fawkes style attack on the houses of parliament, followed by the reinstatement of the monarchy.
>>>Ladies and Gentlemen, the Queen! *raises glass*
So, you’d trade in your selection of elected douuchebags for a geriatric douchebagette with a hereditary douchebag heir with two douchebag sons?
Obama doesn’t have fleas? And he doesn’t scream and throw things in restuarants? And he doesn’t start feces-throwing contests? Darn! There goes my only reason for supporting him!
Crane: You redcoats need to get your act together, strap Brown and Cameron to a rocket, and shoot that motherfucker right into the sun. Blair has probably escaped your grasp for now, but if you can, stick him ass-first on the nosecone.
Abso-fucking-lutely, Yankee.
I still haven’t forgiven you sheepfuckers for the Potato Famine.
Ah political discourse, you’ve gotta love the sophistic….never mind.
I’ve actually been asking politicians how they feel about us atheists. Ron Paul’s the only one whose replied so far but if you’re interested please clicketh the link!